On this episode of the Riton Podcast, host Brady Speth joins Mike Doyle. Canine officer, SWAT officer and host of Tactical Tangents Podcast. Dive into his journey beginning with a rookie cop all the way to educating Law Enforcement, Military and the public on all things tactical.
Brady Speth 0:07
Alright, hi everybody, once again we are back with the Riton Podcast. Today’s guest has many titles. We were gonna go with some guy, Mike the cop. No, I would like to introduce Mike Doyle, law enforcement officer, canine, SWAT, runs your own podcast, which I’ve been on a couple times. So it’s nice to be on this side of the mic now getting to interview the interviewer. So like to welcome you to the random podcast.
Mike Doyle 0:37
Thanks for having me, man. This is awesome. takes all the work off my plate. So
Brady Speth 0:40
Right I know he was gonna off on having to
Mike Doyle 0:41
Just get to sit here and relax,
Brady Speth 0:42
not having to edit or do anything so he’s all excited so. So among many things, law enforcement, like I said, canine SWAT, you run a podcast called Tactical Tangents. So
Mike Doyle 0:54
Brady Speth 0:54
If you’re a Riton fan, you probably heard about Tactical Tangents before. So let’s kind of start man just go background on you. I know you said that you thought the pressure was off. But now I’m just gonna throw you a bunch open ended.
Mike Doyle 1:04
Now this is easy. I run a podcast because I’m a nerd. And so it’s easy for me to talk a lot. In fact, it’s uh, that’s that’s how that was like my outlet to get into something where I can use my excessive talking to vector into something useful and beneficial for people hopefully. So I worked on an ambulance before I was a cop. I did the EMT thing on a on an ambulance in Southern California for a while, and then became a cop. And I’ve always been passionate about teaching and mentoring people. And the whole leadership thing was something that I just really enjoyed. And it helped me have a better understanding and knowledge base for the stuff that I do. So at some point, I realized that there’s a lot of things that we need to teach cops, that they’re not getting in the academy and elsewhere. And so we started to go down this path towards what eventually became the podcast. And the guy that I run it with Jim is a military pilot, he works. He’s an he’s in the Air Force. And we didn’t want to make it just for cops. It was kind of a we’ve got, I mean, I could go down another rabbit hole of what we’ve done and back in the day in terms of stuff that we’ve done working with teenagers and stuff. But the idea being, we didn’t want to make it just about cops, it was for public safety for military people that might be either thinking about joining or they’ve joined and now they’re just kind of working through their careers, or even just people that were into survival, self defense, those sorts of things. And so we started a podcast to talk about that stuff.
Brady Speth 2:35
I like it. And if you haven’t, I’ll shamelessly plug you a few times throughout the show. But for sure, guys listen to Tactical Tangents podcast. You can listen to yours truly on there.
Mike Doyle 2:44
Yeah, you can.
Brady Speth 2:45
I’m kind of at the low level of everybody that you’ve had on. So
Mike Doyle 2:47
Not at all.
Brady Speth 2:48
Make sure you get on there and listen, because I do like the way you guys approach stuff. So we’ll come back to the podcast, go into EMT and then law enforcement and kind of your progression a little bit through through law enforcement.
Mike Doyle 3:00
Yeah, so in Southern California, being an EMT on a private ambulance is a tough place to make a living if you don’t want to go work for one of the fire departments, which out there it was. And I don’t this is not a negative thing. It’s just it’s a very competitive, being a firefighter paramedic, that whole line of work in Southern California is very competitive. And it wasn’t wasn’t really my thing I really enjoyed the medical side of that job working on an ambulance do a 911 calls, but I wanted something with a little bit more autonomy and most of the calls that you’d go to there were very linear it was respond to seen treat patient take them to the hospital clean up and go do it again.
Brady Speth 3:42
Mike Doyle 3:43
and and so law enforcement was a little bit more fast and slow and there was there’s more possible outcomes and routes that you can kind of go down so I applied at a couple places I there was a hiring freeze at one agency I was in backgrounds with ended up out in Tucson kind of unrelated thing and they were hiring and so I put in an application. I don’t generally name my agency but it is a local agency we’ll say and and so I started working out here as a cop and man I I’ve had a lot of fun got to do a lot of cool things. I do. SWAT and canine now is my assignments, my job tasks, but I also teach a bunch and yeah, that’s a long story short, I guess
Brady Speth 4:29
We’ll dig into each of those a little bit. So you kind of go from joining patrol everybody kind of knows the progression through through sort of law enforcement. Go to some of the specialties as far as start with canine because that’s you’re currently doing is that something you want to do something you always wanted to do? Is that something that came open and hey, this seems cool. So kind of get into that
Mike Doyle 4:47
Canine was alright, so storytime back in the day I was I probably had. So you start as a cop and you go through the Academy, then field training where you’re working with another officer and then finally you get set out To the wild on your own right,
Brady Speth 5:01
Mike Doyle 5:01
yeah, and go get some good luck. And I was probably only five or six months in. When I got to go with one of the canine handlers to look for a guy that did a home invasion. There was a pursuit, they bailed out in our neighborhood. And we went looking for this Dude, that was, you know, possibly hiding in the neighborhood somewhere. And I was I mean, I didn’t know. I don’t know what I was doing. Here some guy Yeah, right. And and so we went looking for this dude. And I was lethal cover officer for the dog handler, and we were walking through like a church parking lot. And there’s a little section that was closed off where they like, apparently stored stuff. And the dog handlers like he’s in there. And I’m like, What? And he’s like, he’s in there. Hey, man, you better come out, show me your hands. And I was like, What the hell is it? I’m just pointing my gun over there. Like, I don’t know what’s happening. And so sure enough, the guy’s like, okay, I give up. Don’t bite me. And I was like, that was bad ass. I would have never known that guy was in there. Yeah, you know that it was it was the coolest thing to me. And I and it was something that like, that’s an
Brady Speth 6:06
imprented on you. Yeah.
Mike Doyle 6:08
And that kind of took me to a level in and of itself, because that it’s a pretty competitive assignment to get into. And so I had to, I had to up my game just as a rookie cop, to even have a chance downtown to be competitive for it. So that was the canine
Brady Speth 6:23
Your first experience of seeing how dogs work. Talk about some of the ups and downs of having a dog as your partner. I have a lot of friends that are canine guys. And these stories go?
Mike Doyle 6:34
Brady Speth 6:34
The whole spectrum of
Mike Doyle 6:36
That necessitates another sip of wine.
Brady Speth 6:37
Yeah, before we dig into this one.
Mike Doyle 6:40
Brady Speth 6:40
Cause everybody sees the dog right? They’re like ah that’s awesome dude, you have a dog but let’s get into some of the real world love having to deal with the dog all the time.
Mike Doyle 6:47
So attack dogs have teeth. And so my my first partner was a 90 pound German Shepherd, that his on off switch was a little faulty. And so like people would meet him and he just growl at people and put his hackles up and stuff and and probably about three, four weeks into training, I was getting bit every time he would, he would find somebody even in training, which is like a nightly, like, multi nightly occurrence when the dogs in training, and it would just be little bites, he would just kind of knip me but break the skin, maybe but not like stitches and hospital and stuff like that. But you know, the, I mentioned the guy that we found the home invader when i when i first kind of got interested in the canine thing, and there’s nothing cooler than going out and hunting for people that you know, and I’m not I’m not much of a hunter. Otherwise I don’t. I’m not like the elk hunter dude, or anything, it’s just not, I’ve never gotten into that nothing against it, just not my thing. But looking for bad guys that ran from the cops, I mean, and finding them is cool, especially when you when you find them in a place or in a way that you wouldn’t have without the help of a dog and the nose. And so that’s like amazing, right, but you work with those animals, and there’s always that risk of getting bit. So there’s a lot of a lot of ups and downs just as far as that goes. You know, the other big thing is they are a reflection of you, you know that and we have a thing that we say as dog handlers that it goes down the leash. And so like if your dog is neurotic, or crazy or stupid, that well it goes that goes both goes down the leash. So like you probably got it from you, right? It’s kind of the but that’s, that’s good and bad. It’s good in the sense that if you work hard, and you have a good, a good dog, and he does well, then it reflects well on you. But you also just have to have kind of a sense of humor, but also like a real sense of humility and understanding that they are dogs. And so they they they’re not 100%. And so you can tell them everything. Yeah, you could go in there and be like, the dogs not showing me anything. And then like the the guy sitting in there on the couch, and you’re like, damn it. You know, I mean, it’s just, they have their days and so
Brady Speth 9:01
Their not robots.
Mike Doyle 9:02
Yeah, they’re not and and i think that’s good and bad. It’s, it’s bad. Because obviously, there’s a safety component for what we do in our line of work. And we want to make sure that our dog is reliable and that we’re going to find the people that we’re looking for, right. But the other side of it is I think it’s a good It teaches you a way of thinking about doing business in a way that you kind of have to challenge your assumptions that you’re making. And you have to realize that, hey, you know, I’m gonna use this dog and he’s gonna probably go in there and find him because he’s a good dog and stuff. But I always have to have in the back of my head that I could get it wrong. Yeah. And it turns out, not just dogs get it wrong. People get wrong handlers. A lot of it is handler error. And just like anything that we do in law enforcement, you can send people into a house search the house and they can miss stuff too. So yeah, teaches you a lot of those things. A lot of critical thinking.
Brady Speth 9:53
Yeah, but that’s how long you’ve been doing it now. So you’ve mentioned the first dog you’ve been on the canine for team for how long
Mike Doyle 9:58
I’ve been in canine for It’ll be eight years this summer. So seven and change
Brady Speth 10:04
year one to year seven and change. What’s how does how have you changed as a handler?
Mike Doyle 10:12
I mean, I went from from having that dog that like no one could pet and was a total a hole. That was that sent me to the hospital numerous times to a dog that you would never guess bites people for a living if you actually met him, right. So I’ve, I’ve gotten fortunate to see both ends of that spectrum. As far as like how I’ve progressed just personally, as a handler. You know, there’s a lot of things if you were like a perfectionist with which I think a lot of people that get into law enforcement or the military or those realms are, if you’re kind of that type A personality. Yeah, there’s a lot of things that you have personal control over, like, Oh, I didn’t shoot well today. So I can go shoot more, and I can go practice and I can get the ammo and I can dry fire, or I need to lose some weight, I need to run faster, I need to lift harder, I need to, you know, I need to go learn how to fight those if there’s things that I can do about it. And then there’s things with the dog that like, one of the things that we have is like every time you fix one problem in dog training, you create another one,
Brady Speth 11:13
Mike Doyle 11:13
And so you kind of have to learn how to relax a little bit. And just say like, there’s certain things you just have to accept in life.
Brady Speth 11:21
That’s the that was kind of what I was waiting for. Yeah, I think that’s probably the biggest thing from even my limited exposure to a lot of the handlers even on your team. And you know, like, the new guys are so like, spun up. And you can immediately tell if someone’s been a dog handler for four or 5 10 years versus one or two things,
Mike Doyle 11:37
just roll your eyes.
Brady Speth 11:39
They’re gonna do Yeah, no.
Mike Doyle 11:42
Of course, he’s shitting on the carpet.
Brady Speth 11:43
Yeah, what makes sense? That’s exactly what he should be doing right now. Sorry,
Mike Doyle 11:46
is this a G rated? My potty mouth might get ahead of me.
Brady Speth 11:51
So how does it you could kind of go wherever you want with this one as far as how much you are talking about. So what from a regular handler and then you’re also SWAT certified and your dog is as well. So how does that kind of transition go from because I know there’s guys on the team that are just canine handlers that are not part of the SWAT team. And you have to also is something that you have to be on SWAT team before you can go then canine and have your dog part of that or how does that kind of work.
Mike Doyle 12:16
So this is it’s kind of agency specific, right? Everyone does, does things a little bit differently. Where I work I was on I was on SWAT before canine actually I was I was on SWAT as a regular patrol guy, and then I got into canine. And to be clear, they’re two separate assignments canine and SWAT are completely different units. But we work closely together. Because many of the operations that we do in SWAT we require or can benefit from the use of the dog. And so we have several handlers who were on SWAT, and or are now on SWAT, that are also that are dog handlers. And then we’ve also got guys that have been dog handlers for a long time. And they work with SWAT, but they’re not officially on the team, we you know, we treat them like they’re on the team there. Yeah, they’re part of our team by extension. But they’re not they haven’t gone through SWAT school, they don’t go on regular daily operations. And as far as the difference between the two, I mean, there’s, there’s kind of a personality thing, right, like my first dog, he was a, he was a certified dog, he worked the street, but he was not a social enough creature to be in close confines with the situation that we require with SWAT, you know, with other with other teammates and stuff that are going to have guns covering.
Brady Speth 13:33
Mike Doyle 13:34
Yeah, we’re in a tight hallway or, you know, in an under, under, under mark, in an unmarked vehicle or something like that, where, you know, we’re all working really close together. If your dog is kind of a jerk, he’s just not a good fit. Yeah. And it doesn’t. It’s not for it’s not a knock necessarily on the handler, it’s just, that’s just not, it’s not a good fit.
Brady Speth 13:53
Mike Doyle 13:54
And the same time, there’s also certain handlers that have to be, you know, have the right attitude to work with SWAT. Fortunately, we don’t have any handlers like that.
Brady Speth 14:04
Mike Doyle 14:05
I think handlers of years past have probably fit in that category. But that’s not the case. But yeah, so they’re separate, but they work closely, there’s some overlap, because we have some guys that do both, or at least that have done both. And, really, it just boils down to working together as much as you can and training together and having that working relationship. And it’s, it’s probably not unlike anything, you know, it’s like, you guys have to have a close working relationship with the people that make your, you know, the packaging materials for your, for your products and stuff. It’s like, you know, these things are, there’s overlap there. But you don’t lose identity either way, like the canine guys are good at the canine thing. But they’re different. We have to understand what makes us similar and what makes us different.
Brady Speth 14:51
Mike Doyle 14:51
you know, so yeah, I mean, I can go on all day about the personality differences in terms of some of that, but really, it’s just It’s about teamwork. And I think the, the thing about teamwork that people tend to lose sight of a little bit is, you know, there’s like the cheerleader types that are like, they think that teamwork is like who can like root the loudest? And like, Come on guys, we can do it, you’re doing great.
Brady Speth 15:16
Mike Doyle 15:16
And there’s and there’s teamwork that understands that, hey, this is a different share of the workload, you know, you cover my back, and I cover your back. And it’s not about being the strongest person or the fastest person or the best person, it’s about dividing the work in a way that everyone carries their own share of the weight. And that we find that synergy. You know, and I think canine is a good example of that, because a dog by itself is, is mostly useless.
Brady Speth 15:41
Mike Doyle 15:41
And a handler by himself can’t do as much as they can with the dog present. And so, you know, finding that I think is a good analogy for ethic.
Brady Speth 15:50
No exactly, that makes sense. Now, and I think that’s a good point. I know. And we’ll get into the Tactical Tangents side of it. I know you guys are big on like people and, and how like we train and how are the thought processes? Give an idea, and we’ll kind of get there but give an idea. Because I think people, there’s such a misconception I think with and that’s why I kind of dig in a little bit on the canine side is like, Oh, you said you’d pick up dog one day? And he goes, and does stuff give an idea of like, the training, you don’t got to go into specifics by any means. But like, what’s it like? What kind of time? Like, are we talking? What kind of demand? Are we talking? I mean, I know that your dog lives at home with you. You’re it’s a constant thing. So yeah, well, one idea about that.
Mike Doyle 16:29
So So nuts and bolts, when we go get a dog. And again, agency specific purpose specific, we were picking dogs, typically, for patrol and detection use, if you want to just a detection dog, or just to patrol dog, you’re potentially looking at different things but. The way that we do it, the way our agencies is structured is you go and you get a dog, they’re usually from anywhere from 18 months to two to three years old, somewhere in that range. There, they generally come from the protection sports world. So they’ve done like bite sleeves and bite suits and stuff as like a sport. And then when we get them home, we take those drives, and that those traits and some of that training, if you want to call it that, and we turn them into police dogs, and that process takes anywhere from two three months, depending on how quick. And some of it’s the handler and the training and some of it’s the dog and how much you have to build them up. Now, that gets you certified, but it doesn’t get you ready for like the SWAT deployments, right? Then you get certified, you might work the street for a while. And then you get some experience under your belt some real life stuff before you might start working with SWAT. Now that’s just the the general timeline to get you up to speed.
Brady Speth 17:36
Mike Doyle 17:36
but in terms of, you know, more, I guess, philosophically what you’re looking at, I think with your question. It starts with selection, right? And this speaks to like, you’re talking about the people thing, and I’ll, I’ll get into that later. But the selection of the dog is the biggest thing. People can’t just go pick up a dog off the street or at the pound and say like, Hey, we’re gonna make them a police dog. Oh, I have. My favorite thing is when we go do public demonstrations. And they’re like, Oh, I have a German Shepherd. I’m like, Well, first of all, this isn’t a German Shepherd. And secondly, having a shepherd or a Malinois does not make it a good police or protection or guard dog or any of those.
Brady Speth 18:12
Mike Doyle 18:13
So selecting the dog with the traits and the temper and the drive, and everything you want, that you’re looking for is kind of where it starts. And that’s true for hiring people for jobs working with people. So the same is true about picking handlers. Picking SWAT guys and hiring new police officers is selection is a big, big part of that.
Brady Speth 18:34
Mike Doyle 18:34
So then, the training starts, you know, if you think about dogs, dogs are pack animals, right? And so they there’s a hierarchy and everything that that dogs do, we as humans have a tendency to assign a lot of human emotion to things that dogs are just simply not capable of. They don’t have like, likes and wants and desires the way that that we do, right? They get needs that are fulfilled by their humans. And so everything that we do, they’re kind of paying attention to so it starts when you get them home, and you’re the one that feeds them. And you know, they’re in a cage, and they’re bored until you come in the picture. And then things are fun and exciting.
Brady Speth 19:10
Mike Doyle 19:10
Right. And so you vector, all of that into the dog building a working relationship with the dog, they’re not your pet, right. And there’s a big difference for what you’re asking these animals to do. As far as like establishing that, and I think that’s something that every handler has, you know, talked about not being perfect, right? And having some being a little relaxed about what you’re willing to accept. Every handler establishes that differently. Some are very platonic, you know, this is the right word. It’s like, it’s like, look at you’re down here, and I don’t really have to have a whole lot of interaction with you. You’re just supposed to do your job work for me and that’s it. Yeah. And others. It’s like, No, man, you’re my best friend. You’re part of the family, but you’re gonna do what I’m told. Yeah, you know, you’re gonna you’re gonna let your yeah so it just, you know, all of that is established. at home on kind of on the fringes of the formal the actual training that happens but the training never stops like i said you solve one problem you create another one so it’s you know we’re constantly doing obedience building searches, area searches, bite work, gunfire sensitivity stuff, teaching your dog how to follow a laser to go into a certain room. G etting your dog a lot of is really mundane it’s like you want your dog to work around swat guys and what you have to do you have to like get all your swat buddies in a room with all their gear on and just get the dog comfortable and used to that like nobody that’s not a bite suit yeah body armor please don’t like that you know it’s just stuff like that i mean it’s and like you get the SWAT guys and they’re they’re like wow we’re getting paid for this and just hanging out hey you’ll be really glad that we did this yeah
Brady Speth 20:45
When you actually need it
Mike Doyle 20:46
you know hunkered down behind a curb getting shot out or something somewhere so yeah that’s
Brady Speth 20:54
so i think that leads we’ve kind of been toying with it let’s go into the tactical tangents side of things because i think that’s a big thing where we’ve talked about people and i know you guys people ideas hardware how none of them actually work without the other one and you know kind of dig into a little bit you kind of talked why you wanted to kind of do that but go a little deeper into why you wanted to do the podcast and what you’re trying to achieve by doing that and get people thinking a certain direction
Mike Doyle 21:20
i mentioned that it kind of started as a mentoring project i think and it was to teach people the things that we don’t otherwise have time to learn i mean formal training in the realm of public safety in the military. I mean you’re so busy doing just the administrative bureaucratic stuff that it’s hard to really get all the stuff that you need and there’s also i think a lot of people who are self starters and they’re motivated to to learn and better themselves but they don’t really have a good place to get that and so we wanted to create a resource for them to do that and again it’s not just specific to professional development that’s a big focus of it but also for just people who are looking for better advice because there’s a lot of bad advice and and philosophically kind of where we came from has a lot to do with a guy named John Boyd so you know i can spend an hour long time given an entire like class about that and i won’t but John Boyd is philosophically the work of john boyd is a guy that is where this comes from he was an air force fighter pilot there’s a book about him a biography called “Boyd the Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War” and one of his big philosophies had to do a lot with this people ideas hardware thing and to keep it succinct and to not go on for days about it because tangents is my thing he said that machines don’t fight wars people do. you have to teach them how to think people, ideas, hardware in that order and so our thing was like you know especially like i’ll use law enforcement as an example and and Boyd goes into the military side of this in depth in a lot of his work but also the book about him but like buying all the gear in the world doesn’t solve all of your problems.
Right like like just because we’re sitting here with a camera and a couple microphones that doesn’t make the content worthwhile right yeah exactly and so like in law enforcement it’s like oh we need body cameras because accountability you know and and transparency and the all these things and it’s like look you can buy i’m a big fan of body cameras i wouldn’t i wouldn’t want to work without one ever again but like if you think that just the camera is gonna fix all the problems that we have you’re not i mean it’s a window into it helps us illustrate those problems and pick those things apart but it doesn’t fix them right and so what fixing them starts with investing in people right investing in people first and the ideas the skills the tactics and the human factors there you know and then you supplement that with the hardware and the technology and all those things to kind of build into it and so we wanted to focus on on that element the leadership stuff the the critical thinking teaching people how to think about things and how to approach problems and and that’s philosophically what we try to achieve and you know that’s it’s again it’s we we say that and people think that we’re not gear nerds which is not true right you can ask my buddies like oh he’s always wanting to go play with scopes and you know and it’s like yeah we are gear nerds but the idea is to be thoughtful about it and and to apply those things
Brady Speth 24:35
without training without application
Mike Doyle 24:37
yeah and so that’s kind of the the overarching theme of it is you know yeah gear hardware technology is great but like do it thoughtfully and apply it well
Brady Speth 24:48
yeah so and you know what i like about that and we’ve talked about this in the past is it’s not you can talk about it from law enforcement we talk about from a military side it’s the same for business you can go buy somebody a $10,000 computer, you can go do whatever, but if they don’t know how to use it, yeah, and what’s the point? Right? So a lot of that is, and one of the big reasons I like and was kind of drawn to the philosophy behind you guys podcast is that it’s not it’s, it’s applicable no matter what you’re doing, like parenting, it’s applicable across the board, business, law enforcement, military, you name it, no matter what your job is, your position is, if that’s something that you can focus on, because you can buy somebody the fanciest shit in the world and get last productivity out of somebody who has the worst as long as you’re focusing on people,
Mike Doyle 25:28
I mean, think about, you know, insurgencies, you know, all over the world and, or even like, the Revolutionary War period, right. Yeah. I mean, think about, like the colonists, they weren’t the best equipped, they weren’t the riches that, but that, like, guerrilla warfare thing really goes places. And,
Brady Speth 25:47
you’re noticing that,
Mike Doyle 25:48
yeah, well, you know, and that’s, and so it’s just, you know, it’s one of Boyd’s points, and he was famous for this big study that he did have, like every conflict ever called patterns of conflict. It was like a class that he gave, and it was hours and hours long. It’s crazy. And, you know, he talked about, like, Look, under equipped forces have been winning wars and battles for ever. Alright, you know, and so, like, it’s not about just funding and equipment, it’s about making sure that we have good ideas, good tactics, and that we have the right people in the right places. And so that that was a big part of it was, you know, making sure that we’re getting good cops that we’re teaching them the right lessons and same thing across the board. You know, take our status quo, I guess to the next level.
Brady Speth 26:33
The I kind of touched on the parenting side, we’ll dig into that, because I like
Mike Doyle 26:37
that there’s like literally foreshadowing, right.
Brady Speth 26:39
That’s what I try to do here. The so your new, relatively new parents, congratulations again. Thanks. Um, life as a parent, one. you’re catching up on sleep finally. I know you’ve got every new parent goes through that phase, which wasn’t too bad.
Mike Doyle 26:55
The think work is worse for my sleep.
Brady Speth 26:58
Yeah, probably call outs. How has it changed? I always like to wonder this with new parents. Everybody talks about the sleep and the oh, the kid and everything. How does it actually changed your the way you approach work? How’s it changed the way your approach to things? Has it changed anything? Do you think that Mike from a year two years ago is different from the Mike of today? Because of it?
Mike Doyle 27:20
I mean, yeah, it’s obviously life changing. And anyone I think that the parent will say that, and I and, and I, fundamentally, I think I think everyone fundamentally understands that, even if they’re not parents, they know it will be different, but they don’t really grasp how, yeah, but I think the biggest thing is just like, It’s time management is a whole other thing. And so you you kind of refocus. It’s, you know, the number of hours in a day hasn’t changed, right? You just have to figure out how you split them up how to use it.
Brady Speth 27:50
Mike Doyle 27:51
And I think if there’s anything it taught me was what, how much wasted time? I mean, you know, I still get I could manage my time better, and I can get more done. Sure. I’m sure there’s a way but, man, I must have wasted a lot more of it. Yeah, back when, and I wish I had I had to learn how to manage that better. I mean, now it’s by necessity. Right, right. You know, so I, that’s probably the biggest thing is time, it’s our most valuable resources is our time. And so, you know, that’s, that’s obviously a big part of it. And otherwise, it’s just, I mean, I love hanging out with him. And being a dad. It’s fun. He’s getting older, and he’s interactive now and stuff. So that’s cool. But yeah, I mean, that’s probably the biggest thing is just learning how to manage my time differently, which has been in trying to keep up with my little side hustle, I got going on here with, with work and demanding assignments and stuff like that. But you know, for the people that are ever hesitant, like, I know, I was for a long time, I’m like, I don’t know, if I’m ready for this, you know, like, I kind of enjoy my free time and stuff. It’s like, Man, it’s the best thing like I it’s, it’s 100% worth it. And again, people say that all the time, but
Brady Speth 29:04
the there’s never Yeah, there’s never a point in time that you’re ever going to be prepared for it. So the only way to find out that’s what most things though. Yeah, like if I knew the demand that Riton was gonna put on me, I probably would have actually started this, but you don’t have any idea. So I can
Mike Doyle 29:18
imagine and look at what you got now. Yeah, that’s crazy.
Brady Speth 29:20
So that’s what’s crazy. But now it’s fun, man. I like seeing that. So the we do an annual hike to that. Hopefully soon we normally take our kids on so we kind of missed a couple years. The well let let him get four or five before we go to that one. So I’m eager the I know the so we do every year we take the kids and we do this hike up. It’s called Ara Vaipa. We do this hike up through this river that’s like freezing cold.
Mike Doyle 29:45
Yes. Box Canyon.
Brady Speth 29:46
Yeah, locally. So we started taking kids and now Mike’s missed a year or two but we’ll get back to it soon. Yeah, so I’m kind of dig in. Like I said, we don’t want to go too crazy long, but I kind of want to talk a little bit about, a little bit more, I want you to dig a little bit more into tangents, because I think that’s important. I really obviously we sponsor your podcast, that’s how much I believe in it kind of got to want to dig in just a little bit more as to like, how people can can kind of go off what you kind of said with Boyd and then some of the teachings that you guys try to give what kind of throw out there some of the stuff you’ve learned over the kind of the studies of doing it and kind of direct people of how what they can kind of gain from listening to it. And
Mike Doyle 30:27
I mean, I learned stuff constantly from this. And it’s and it’s from, like, a lot of different angles. I mean, it’s just human interactions. And and, you know, trying to like build and market and grow the show and kind of cultivate a team, we’ve talked about the people thing. We’re not, this was never a get rich thing, right? Like and Riton sponsors this show, and we’re, we’re super grateful for that. And it’s been there to enable us to get the things that we need to get this thing going, it was never a get rich thing, right. But you know, we’ve got people now that are starting to help out and we’re able to pay them more or less, you know, we’re trying, we’re kind of getting to that point real slow, but we’re getting there. And, and so it’s teaching me that whole side of it, which it’s kind of like put your money where your mouth is, right? invest in, invest in people and find the right people. Right. And, and all that. And so that’s, that’s just kind of
Brady Speth 31:24
important if you have a podcast talking about that.
Mike Doyle 31:26
Yeah. Right. And, and I mean, and that so far, I mean, it’s going it’s going well, but it’s it’s certainly, it lets me approach it from another angle just because, you know, I, I work in public sector job, I don’t have experience doing like running a business per se. I’ve helped manage a pizza place when I was a kid, you know, but like, that’s, yeah, not really the same thing, especially nowadays. So. So it seems to me a lot as far as those regards as far as what people will gain from it. You know, I hope that anyone can find something useful there. But I’ll give you an example that I think everyone can relate to. We did an episode early early on one of our first episodes, we talked about road rage. And and it’s it’s one of those things because it can become a self defense thing. We’ve had a number of cases here locally where people have gotten like killed over these road rage events. And, and so we kind of in a lot of the stuff that we talked about have like a really a psychology field to it. I’m not a doctor, I’m not a psychiatrist. This is not legal advice, or anything like that. But we I talk about a lot of concepts in psychology because I’m a nerd. And that’s just what I do. And it’s how I understand things. And I think teaching is how I understand things. And so, when I started to think about road rage, when I started to put this episode together, way back when it occurred to me that like, when you’re driving in this like box, right? You have like, you’re you’re down the street going down the street in your car, and like some idiot cuts you off or whatever, and you get the big voice, right, you’re like “F you” know, honking your horn, and all that stuff. And you feel really tough, right? Like you’re, you know, you’re pissed off and you’re like this frickin guy, you know, whatever. And it’s like, you know, I bet if you’re standing face to face with that, dude, you wouldn’t have such a big mouth, you know, and it’s, and it’s funny psychologically, how that physical barrier between us there is like, not only a physical distance, but also an emotional distance between us and that other person that is beyond just the tangible, right. Yes. It’s also that just like, psychologically, we feel emboldened by the fact that like, your whole car length away from this person, yeah. And I think everyone has experienced that and have that like emotional response to like that. And, and so it’s important to like, kind of de escalate in a sense, and we make fun of like the term de escalation as it relates to law enforcement a little bit because I think there’s some nuance they missed by that whole
Brady Speth 33:58
used in a wrong way a little bit. But yeah,
Mike Doyle 34:01
but but like, bigger picture, though, there’s, there’s something to be said about understanding that from like, a conflict resolution thing, and I think everyone can relate to having an argument with your spouse, and your spouse gets that like emotional overreaction, and they get defensive and like, how do you shut that down and get back to a logical and rational point?
Brady Speth 34:22
No comment on that one I’ don’t know what you are atlking about
Mike Doyle 34:25
Yeah, yeah. But But like, that’s, those are the sorts of lessons that like, that’s not just for being a cop, although it applies heavily to cop because people see a uniform and are, for whatever reason, kind of conditioned to see that there’s
Brady Speth 34:40
Theres a response immediatley
Mike Doyle 34:41
authority figure, there’s like this emotional thing, and especially the people that don’t terribly like or are apt to cooperate with the police. You know, when you recognize that you can, you can tackle that in a different way, but also like workplace resolution. You know, you have arguments with co workers and things and especially when there’s like a butting of heads because two people feel like they’re, you know, fighting for like that rank or managing their status in a sense, like, No, I’m the boss of you know, I’m the boss of units like, Guys, everyone just calm down. So it’s I mean, we talk a lot a lot about like the more nuanced stuff like that it’s not just tactics right. That said, we’ve got the tactics thing for you, too. We had one of my favorite episodes was we had Lieutenant Gary Schuelke. He’s a works for San Bernardino PD, he was involved in their active shooter event they had near and dear to my heart I mentioned I was in backgrounds for a department in California before I left and it was San Bernardino department but they were on a hiring freeze. And by the time they got back to me, I had already had like a conditional offer for where I work now. So but he was involved in that active shooter event. He got in a gunfight with the two, you know, terrorists. And he came on he shared audio with us. We had the dispatch audio, we had the gunfight audio, we had just his personal story. That was a father son event. I don’t know if you if you heard that part, but like his son was a rookie cop that was involved in the gunfight with him. So like, that’s crazy, crazy. And so he came on and we did the whole debrief and talked about the whole thing. And so we’ve got those specific takeaways. And then we’ve got the more like, kind of nuanced discussions that I think can apply to lots of everything. Yeah, we try to we try to cover it. It’s tactical tangents. Here we go. Pretty tangential.
Well, good. Now you’ve got Mike said I love it now. Man. I’m super proud of that. We’re working with you guys and everything you’ve done with that. And hopefully see keep growing man so appreciate tell people where we can find Tac Tangents real quick. And then we’ll kind of wrap up with this fun little game like play at the end. So boy,
tacticaltangents.com is the website, our podcast is available there. There’s web players and stuff. If you go there and find it. We’ve also got pretty much every outlet you can think of we’re probably there. If you find one that isn’t, then send us a message and let us know because I’ll try to get on it. But Apple podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio. pretty much anywhere you could probably find it search Tactical Tangents. And like I said, if you find one that we’re not challenges, except that I’ll try to get on it. So
Brady Speth 37:18
perfect. I like it. Alright, here’s what we like to do a little wrap up little rapid fire. Fast Five questions for you. It’s so the only rule you got to tell the first thing that comes to mind you have to answer you’ll get to really think about it. So I gotta keep it completely just off the cuff. If you had one superpower, what would it be?
Mike Doyle 37:39
Time. I’d want to manipulate time to speed it up slow. Speed it up, slow it down. Go back in it.
Brady Speth 37:46
I don’t think we’ve heard that. And I like that. If you could have sit down and have a beer with one person, past present future anybody? Who would it be?
Mike Doyle 37:56
I feel like the easy answer would be John Boyd. But I got to be more. I got to go deeper than that. I’m going to say, you know, I go back to like, one of their original colonists like founding fathers, something like that. Let them know what they’ve created and what they intended. And I just be curious to pick their brain and let them know where we’re at.
Brady Speth 38:18
Did you think it was gonna go this way? If you had eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be? It’d be specific or genre.
Mike Doyle 38:28
No, I probably do sandwiches or something. The fat kid in me wants taco
Brady Speth 38:32
Taco sandwich. If/when you write a biography, what would you title it?
Mike Doyle 38:40
Brady Speth 38:42
You can’t we can’t do that. podcast and say Talk Less.
Mike Doyle 38:46
why I’d have to write it down.
Brady Speth 38:49
I can shut up like you’ve been thinking about that one. That’s not
Mike Doyle 38:52
that didn’t come up with no, that’s just a like, that’s just one of my life lessons at this point is I should Talk Less or at least just do it into a microphone.
Brady Speth 39:00
Time and a place
Mike Doyle 39:02
Brady Speth 39:03
I hand you a million dollars cash. What’s the first thing you’re buying?
Mike Doyle 39:14
I’d start hiring people to do the stuff that I don’t want to do.
Brady Speth 39:18
Mike Doyle 39:19
Starting with my landscaping.
Brady Speth 39:23
After you buy something for your lovely wife, and then that’s what you meant to say first and then well,
Mike Doyle 39:27
if I do if I get the landscaping done, then she that’s she’s actually been doing nice landscaping this weekend. But
Brady Speth 39:33
Perfect. Now I gotta throw you under the bus a little bit. Thanks, buddy. We’ll, we’ll definitely have you on again soon. Just kind of an update, like keep it short and sweet. And let people get a little taste of kind of
Mike Doyle 39:46
And we appreciate the support that Ryan has given us. It’s, like I said, it’s enabled us to make this something that we’re really invested into and committed to doing and getting right and i think it’s, I mean, it’s been growing and people been giving us great feedback. So we’re pretty
Brady Speth 40:00
Perfect, so keep on keepin on dude. I love it. So maybe you’re coming on and
Riton Optics 40:13
thank you for listening to the Riton podcast. Please like, subscribe and review. For more information on Riton Optics visit us at ritonoptics.com that’s r-i-t-o-noptics.com